Chase Tenbury LLP the owners of the old Cattle Market site in Tenbury Wells are in negotiation with planners about the redevelopment of the site. Soil testing has recently been taking place, and whilst no firm proposals have been submitted it is hoped that the redevelopment will commence within 18 months.
It seems that the most likely planning application will be for a small supermarket along with substantial parking facilities.
There is no information about the likely operator of the site but the ownership is expected to remain with Chase Tenbury LLP.
Sainsbury plc made a submission regarding the site, during the District Plan revision.
Tesco's are expected to apply for a Tesco Express in Burford in 2010 when further development is due to take place.
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103 comments:
How can they can build on the site? Whats changed from the last application back in the late 90s ,also its on a flood plain and a conservation area.
what does LLP stand for?
LLP = Limited Liability Partnership
There are various planning restrictions, but nothing insurmountable for the right person, with the right connections.
Any idea why it was refused last time?
HAS THE APPLICATION GONE IN YET
Mr Chase please don`t allow any of these huge companies on to this site they will ruin our lovely town .Remember how they treated you when you were a potato farmer they squeezed the life out of your buisness this is what they will do to all small retailers in the town.
No sign of a formal application. I think it is in the 'discussion' stage.
WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON THIS WR15.DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE GOOD FOR THE TOWN OR CREATE MORE SHOPS TO CLOSE
Does anyone know why the 1999 retail application failed? It appears that at the time it was more of an exploratory application which was only taken to the first stage. The site is not empty and a blot on the Tenbury landscape. It was identified as a major development site in both the district plan, and the conservation area report. Although the are challenges with the site such as flood plain, next to a SSSI, on a medieval site etc, there now appears to be a willingness by the planners to resolve issues and get the site developed.
Done correctly, redevelopment can either make or break a town. I remember two examples from other towns. In one town, Safeway’s were allowed to build a small store and car park, in the centre of town, but also had to build an arcade of small retail units (shops) leading from the store out to the main shopping street. This led an increase in people coming to the town, the new small shops thrived and no other shops in town closed. In another town Sainsbury built a medium sized store and car park on the edge of town, they also built a library, village hall and a community centre all on the same site. People flocked to the store and used the facilities, but they didn't venture into town. Quite a number of the traditional shops closed, some reopened as restaurants until the council refused any more change of use requests. Many of the shops remain empty.
I am note sure that Mr Chase is as anti-Tesco as sometimes reported. This is from an article in the Independant in March 2008.
"Tesco created Tyrrells in the first place," he explains. "If it was not for them, I would not have had the money or ingenuity to keep my farm alive."
This is because the supermarket group helped Chase get back on his feet after his first farming business went bankrupt in 1992.
"I started again in 1993. Tesco was looking for pretty potatoes, but this side of the country it was all farmers in smocks, with Hereford cattle or hops. We knew we could grow potatoes and we did – they had beautiful white skins and Tesco was prepared to pay high prices. We built up a great business on the back of this."
Two more supermarkets in or close to Tenbury ,i think Tesco/Sainsburys should do some research.There is only so much money people can spend.It would not be a viable propersition
I expect they can calculate how many people from Tenbury use the stores in Ludlow, Kidderminster and Leominster etc. They have access to Credit Card and Club Card Information. They can also look at the turn-over from Spar, Co-op & Bowketts and based on national statistics calculate how much they would expect 3500 people to be spending. There is also a number of new houses planned for Tenbury & Burford.
Tesco's proposed development in Sheringham Norfolk, has been turned down by a Goverment inspector on grounds it would harm other shops in the area ,a decision which local MP Norman Lamb predicted would send "shock waves through the planning system nationally".
A planning inspector said "even at the lower level of impact it was considered that one of the small supermarkets would close and several others would potentially do so.
The harm the inspector identified was the vitality,viability and the retail function of the town centre and the likely detrimental impact on future investment is of over riding importance
Something to consider if and when the application is submitted
It appears to be a case of a Tesco (?) in Burford OR a Sainsbury's (?) in Tenbury - so MHDC (and Chase?) may see it as a race, to get their scheme gets approved first. Of course, we may simply end up with a Tesco in Tenbury - which would get rid of half the conflict between the two schemes
Is the site big enough for either? How does Tuffins or a larger Spar sound, or maybe something more like the Ludlow Food Centre?
Of course we could end up with neither which would be great .Keep Tenbury as it is i say.
How does a car-park sound ,more logical as the car-parking is shocking in the town .Where has 1.4m come from for the sale of the yard?, has it been advertised anywhere or is it an estimated "guess"
DO YOU SHOP IN TENBURY WR15
£1.4M Not sure where this came from, but several people have quoted it. (Don't forget this is a blog, there is no guarantee that facts are correct) If Chase LLP are in consultation with planners then it seems that it's not for sale.
Yes I shop in Tenbury.
ludlow food centre is far to expensive .
Some items are cheaper than Bowketts!
Ludlow Food Centre is hugely popular.
Will Chase was planning something similar for Tenbury, working with Kate Shropshire.
Certainly the Ludlow Food Centre has brought more people to Bromfield.
We know what people want: they want to get in their cars, park outside where they are going, buy something, have a drink and a piece of cake, then drive home again.
Will/Kate's idea for the Cattle Market - a Food Centre, with a cafe/restaurant in the old infirmary building might actually have worked.
Clearly that's on the backburner now and a Supermarket is the lead idea. Another supermarket in Tenbury sounds like a mistake, but it looks like MHDC have decided to back it, simply to try and stop people in Burford getting a local shop.
Why does one contributor write in CAPITALS all the time? Is their Caps Lock key faulty?
Writing in capitals is SHOUTING in webiquette.
Name one item that is cheaper in the ludlow food centre compared to Bowketts or even Spar .
is will chase still with kate shropshire?
Has the land in Burford been sold to anybody yet? Or are we again guessing!
No they are not together any more
Not sure if any money has changed hands in Burford, but Tenbury Town Council were told, that MHDC, have written to South Shropshire (The planing authority for Burford) asking that they should be consulted about the plans.
Any idea when this was discussed ? If they are in discussion with each other why the race to secure the deal
Is the "race" speculation? The Cattle Market Site has been identified as an area in need of development for years. (It would seem, even before it was sold) It is mentioned in every report and official document relating to Tenbury. Perhaps it is now reaching the stage (or has reached the stage) were the continued apparent lack of action is an embarrassment to the planners, and they have become more proactive in their approach. As always, with so many 'players' and vested interests, who do you believe. There is no guarantee that the comments on here are all correct, even if they are believed to be so by their author.
When were the Town council told MHDC had written to South Shropshire?
At the October Town Council meeting.
Thanks
Was the 1999 application refused or withdrawn.If it was refused do you know why
The 1999 application appears to have been refused. Not sure why, as all the papers are not available. I'm also not sure how 'complete' an application it was. Was it just to see which way the planners were leaning. I guess if the site was without planning problems, it would have achieved a much higher value. The application was for Chelverton West Ltd a Bristol based property developer by architects Mountford Pigott Partnership. (What connection do either of these companies have to the former owners of the site?
Thanks wr15
When the application is submitted what is the best course of action to get it refused again ,also who has the final decision .
Anyone can lodge an objection. In most cases this can be done online. The objection will have to be on planning grounds, not because you don't want it. There are quite 'high' hurdles to jump to develop this site, so I would guess the application when it is submitted will be quite comprehensive. I'm sure there will be widespread public debate.
Do you think you will be objecting to it ? I hope you will!
I will wait to see what is on the application before I decide. I'm not in favour of leaving the site as it is at the moment.
will you be objecting if it is a supermarket
The last application for a supermarket on the cattle market was refused. Partly this was due to highways issues - the access by SPAR not being up to the volume of two-way traffic and partly to SPAR having the right to use that access road for deliveries. However, if the same person owned the old fire station part of the old workhouse (where the charity shop is now) all they have to do is demolish that part of this historic building and that's the access problem solved. After all, they've already demolished the old (unique) isolation hospital.
It is a race with Burford because their is only demonstrable need for one more supermarket for the Tenbury/Burford area.
See http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/jan/22/politics.business
Perhaps we should be thankful that it is quite a small site.
My brother was dinning in Shrewsbury last night when who should come in to the restaurant yes the man himself Will Chase .My brother started to talk to him about his car a black Porsche Caynne Turbo .Tenbury Wells came into the conversation as my brother lives there,the auction yard was mentioned and Will said his aim was to have a farmers market shop similar to the ludlow food centre with a riverside eaterie,whether this would be in the old hospital he was still unsure
Wr15 what size supermarket would accomadate the size of the site?
ive heard spar are after this site is that true.
How can they demolish a listed building
The river side eaterie sounds a great idea .At last we might have some where decent to dine out in Tenbury.
It is easy to demolish a listed building. Ludlow demolished their town/market hall in the 1980s (at a time when there were discussions about building a new supermarket) and Leominster demolished theirs in the 1970s (at a time when there were discussions about building a new supermarket). In Leominster a couple of people were fined because of it, in Ludlow I think they said it was 'dangerous' so the demolition was held to be appropriate. The curious fact is that the people who had been using the building in Ludlow hadn't noticed it was dangerous and equally it had been deemed safe enough to use in a Blott film. Of course, an MHDC officer did say a few years ago that Temeside House was in dangerous condition - this was one reason for keeping so much of it empty.
What could be said is that the owner has deliberatly neglected the buildings in order to redevelop the site, in which case the authority may not only acquire the buildings but may do so at a price which excludes the value of the site for redevelopment .Also if the building is unoccoupied the authority can serve on the owner giving him seven days of their intentions to carry out repairs to secure the preservation of the building and recover the cost from the owner
Perhaps this should have happened a long time ago
It was the authority (MHDC) that neglected the buildings. Temeside House was fixed up under Teme Rural Challenge - in the 1990s it was quite nice (and quite busy) in there. Lots of users, including: accountants, chiropodist, Town Council office, Town Council chamber, Teme Rural Challenge, District Council Office, Registrar's Office, Wedding venue, and the Community Resource Centre. Not to mention someone living in the back section!
What went wrong was very simple. The Pump Rooms were renovated as a Tourist Attraction, with funding conditional on them housing a Tourist Information Point. What actually happened was very different - the District Council and the Registrar's offices were moved, leaving Temeside House very underused. No visible effort was made to let the now-vacant offices. The ivy was allowed to drow through the walls. Dry rot or wet rot or both was allowed to break out. Nothing visible was done to prevent this. A hole appeared in the roof, MHDC were informed, but didn't mend it. Plan after plan for a 'community building' appeared for Tenbury, including behind the Post Office, when all the time there was an underused building that could have been transformed.
Are we talking about several different buildings?
1. Temeside House - Now Sold to a (so far) un-named purchaser (who presumable is not Chase Tenbury.)
2. The Old Fire Station (Any idea who owns this? Is it still MHDC?
3. The Office Building on the Cattle Market (surely not listed)
A riverside eaterie sounds great. I tried to get some of the "Better Welcome" grant spent on improving the Riverside Walk, but a quango decided the money was to be spent on a Sensory Garden! Surely improving how we use the River (when it's not in flood) must be good for Tourism and therefore good for Tenbury.
Cattle Market area Buildings
1. Temeside House - sale agreed to Raj from the Shamraj restaurant for somewhere around £250k. This had all the uses detailed above in the 1990s. Now largely out of use.
2. The Old Fire Station (sold to Will Chase a few years ago for somewhere around £200k). Used by the Red Cross until the Council Council decided to sell it.
3. The old Infirmary on the Cattle Market site - not listed itself, but within the historic curtilage of a listed building and part of a group of buildings of social and/or historic signfificance, and as such listing building consent would presumably be needed. This was, of course, RBB's Market Office (and other offices) - and subsequently Brightwells.
4. The market buildings 'barns' - livestock auctions, furniture auctions, commercial auctions, holly/mistletoe etc.
5. The isolation hospital - the World's last surviving corrugated iron Workhouse isolation hospital (subsequently the Temeside Cafe). Demolished despite the newts.
6. Phaze Computers - formerly Brightwells and prior to that the Staffordshire Building Society.
How confusing on what is listed and who owns what .Surely not all these buildings can go just to accomadate a supermarket that we dont want
The local plan seemed to propose the demolition of Spar and Pizza Diann and the Launderette and the Betting Shop - with the aim of them being replaced by a new building - presumably a Supermarket.
Demolish spar,the bookies,pizza dis,this is madness.i see in spar that a member of their team as just won sales assistant of the year.KEEP THE BIG SUPERMARKETS AWAY FROM OUR TOWN I SAY.
The Council has zoned the whole of the cattle market site as being in the Town Centre, while Bowketts supermarket is zoned as not being in the town centre.
In other words, if Bowketts want to expand the local plan basically says they cannot (because they are considered to be outside the town centre) but a shop at the back of the cattle market site would be ok as that is considered to be in the town centre!
The local plan may want to demoilsh Spar the bookies and the pizza shop ,all the is a "wish" list
What somebody has already mentioned is the use of the river .Look what they do in Ironbridge /Blist Hill museum for example brings in thousands of tourist why could'nt we do this in Tenbury.We have got the river and buildings to do it just needs a little help of MHDC!!
MHDC are after one thing,just like what happened in Leominster(Safeway) you guessed it a mighty "back hander" we know whats going on so dont let us catch you!
The highways issue why it was refused last time wasnt because it couldnt take two way traffic. It was instructed traffic lights would have to be installed at the entrance from the cattle market onto Teme street ,this would have meant traffic lights on both sides of Teme street ,nothing has changed so what would happen if an emergency vechile was needed to get to get over the bridge ?
The MHDC Tenbury Conservation Area report (written by Consultants who also do a lot of work for Tesco) also expressed a wish to replace the 'modern' block containing the three shops. Any idea who owns this block?
John Barnet he lives in London
If you are new to this blog take a look at the link above.
Traffic lights wouldn't be needed with separate one-way entry and exit routes, ideas for which have already been considered. Alternatively a new bridge could be built over the river.
That would cost a fortune.Where would the new bridge be built and when?
Over ten years to acquire the site, but only 18 months to complete and build a bridge as well
Bullshit spray available from Tesco buy one get one free!
Wasting money again thats what they are good at!
A foot bridge may be a planning requirement as the environment agency say you have to be able to evacuate the site in the event of flooding.
Are we talking about two bridges ?foot bridge and a another bridge for traffic
How could you build a foot bridge so close to the Teme bridge, which is schedule ancient monument ?
Might as well slip in a by-past as well. Three or four lane should do.
spar is not being demolished, i heard spar is after it to create a bigger EUROspar like you find around europe. the land is bigger than you think i heard its also the fields behind the cattle market that chase owns.
I think you'll find that the field behind is the Burgage, owned by the Town Council.
I have a copy of the document used by MHDC to justify their rejection of the 1999 Supermarket application.Anyone interested?
How big are these EUROSPAR supermarkets has anyone been to one?
Yes, let's have the rejection document on the Blog, then we can all see why MHDC rejected it then, but now think it is a good idea.
Rathgael Eurospar in Bangor (Northern Ireland) is 5,500 sq ft. Barrow St Eurospar (Dublin) is 7,000 sq ft. By contact, Milton Keynes Asda is 110,000 sq ft.
How big is the spar that we have got sq feet?
Its make sense to have a supermarket there ON the old caffle market because it will bring people in to town, just imagin one in burford it be disaster all the trade would be suck out of TENBURY.
If you remember lUDLOW was dying when Tescos came it bought new life into the town all the shops are doing well now so let all of the commuity pull together to acceptthe plans and not be against.
Talking utter nonsense again,we dont need a supermarket to get people in our town,just look at the apple festivel today fantastic turnout,and well done to all who participated.well done everyone involved.
Applefest bought people into town, but one trader I spoke with said it had wiped out their trade. They only took 20% of what they usually take on a Saturday!
It was nice to see Tenbury busy, but it would be nicer if it happened more often.
Refs for 1999/2000 refusal are
99/00917CON & 99/00918/OUT.
Reasons given.
1.Demolition of the Market Office building would erode the quality of the Conservation Area.
2.Massing and design of the proposed store not sympathetic to Conservation Area.
3.Siting of proposed store not integrated in 'Primary Retail frontage' of town centre. Servicing arrangements and vehicle access impedes pedestrian access.
4.Site in teme floodplain - development will lead to loss of flood plain and restrict water flow.
5.No archeological survry carried out. Valuable evidence lost if development goes ahead.
This is just a precis. MHDC will have the full document. also refer to ' Issues and concerns relating to the proposed supermarket on the Temnbury wells Cattle Market site Sepetember 1999'
MHDC shoud have a copy of this, I helped to write it.
Despite all the warm words from certain local councillors about how their proposal for the cattle Market site is so wonderful, all the issues in the 2000 MHDC rejection of the supermarket proposal must be addressed and all the misgivings in that document and the' Issues and concerns ' document are still completely relevant.
It's also worth noting that when Chelverton West ( the developers for the 1999 proposal) submitted their planning application it was supported by 3 surveys - a traffic impact survey, a retail impact survey and a hydrological survey. These documents were then used by MHDC to assess the proposals because they couldn't afford to carry out their own , independent,
surveys. Naturally, having been commissioned by the developers, these surveys supported their contentions although the way in which they had been complied and the data that they used was at best suspect, at worst, worthless.
Given that one building (the old isolation hospital) on the former cattle market has already been demolished without permission and the Council has done nothing about it, demolishing another building (the old infirmary) is clearly something the owners can do, if they want to.
There is a new conservation officer now and a new conservation area report compiled by Scott Wilson Ltd of Leeds (who also work for Tesco).
Tenbury Wells Conservation Area
Appraisal and Management Strategy document says...
The Cattle Market is situated in
a prominent position off Teme
Street and adjacent to the
riverside. This area contains two
significant historic buildings,
including the grade II listed
Temeside House, both of which
are currently vacant. The space
is currently in use as car
parking, but opportunities
should be sought to reinstate
the continuous streetscape and
regenerate the setting of the
listed building. The site is
bordered by No’s 54 and 56
Teme Street which currently
detract from the conservation
area. Opportunities to replace
these structures should be
taken as they arise. Any
development within this area will
be subject to Policy EP18 of the
Malvern Hills District Local Plan.
Tenbury Wells Conservation Area
Appraisal and Management Strategy.
That Conservation Area report was wrong - neither Temeside House nor the old infirmary were vacant. Temeside House was being used by Tenbury Town Council (Clerk's office), Tenbury Town Council (Council Chamber), Malvern Hills District Council (Road Sweeper) - and the chiropodist. Some of these uses are still ongoing. Plus for some time now the Hospice Shop has been in the old fire station part.
The old infirmary was then in use as offices (is it still?)
A cynic would wonder if the buildings were described as 'vacant' in order to try to justify their redevelopment.
The report also says "The level
of traffic is increased by the
abundance of on street parking". The reality is that there isn't enough shopping traffic, and that comment appears to suggest that the compilers of the report think shopping is best done on a purpose built retail park, at somewhere like Tesco, leaving the traditional shops to close as the tumbleweed blows past!
The old infirmary is now vacant
Only 95 comments? Can we make it to 100?
No mate, it's Xmas cards
Keep Tesco Sainsburys and all the rest out of Tenbury and Burford, lets keep our town one of a handfull in the country supermarket free. S.O.S( save our shops)Being different helps !
Noticed today that charity christmas cards are now been sold out of the old infirmary ,does anyone know whats going on?
i hear there is talk that tesco are after the auction yard again is this true
I've not heard that, and the last comment from the Town Council (last Monday) was they weren't expecting anything to happen for two to three years.
I think there is still a plan for a Tesco Express at Burford when the new housing is built on the old showground field.
Does Miss Kemp still own this land ?
I have heard that name mentioned, but I don't know the current situation.
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