Thursday, 18 August 2011

Tenbury Tesco Plans & Documents

Click on picture for more images. (Will only work when MHDC planning site is working)
The third Tesco application has now been validated and the documents are available online from the malvernhills.gov.uk planning website, and also in the Tenbury Library and at the Pump Rooms.

If you wish to object, then guidance is available on http://tenbury-futures.blogspot.com/ but as they correctly point out, objections can only be on planning grounds.

Although this is a new planning application, the applicants feel (& I believe that they are correct) that the have already met all the necessary planning requirements in their previous applications, and the only hurdle left to jump is that of design.

There is still the matter of the demolition of the old infirmary, but I'm guessing that provided the developers get approval for the development, then the demolition permission will be allowed.

Malvern planners do not appear to have yet set a closing date for consultations, but expect a decision in early November.

Shropshire Star

201 comments:

1 – 200 of 201   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Looks Hideous

Anonymous said...

Nice to see the entrance show no way for SPAR to get deliveries!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Yuk!!!

Ian said...

. . . and fairly predictably the first letter of objection to be posted on the application website raises issues that have already been dealt with and makes an unsubstantiated claim that the application does not have the support of the majority of the community. I fear I am about to be overcome by a very severe case of déjà vu!!

Anonymous said...

That's because it doesn't have support from the majority of the community

Ian said...

How do you know?

Anonymous said...

dont worry about spar delveries .it wont be there.

Anonymous said...

excellent plans

Anonymous said...

i am a supporter of tesco bring it on

Anonymous said...

Its the same plan as last time with a hop plant up the side. It does have a luvvely panel celebrating the Old Infirmary though (that they themselves will have had demolished if plans passed). It's sustainable too - they've used cutting edge renewable technology (or wood and glass as they like to put it).

Mr. Longbeard said...

"...That's because it doesn't have support from the majority of the community..."

Nor is it objected to by the majority of the community.

Anonymous said...

800+ objections thats how I know

Anonymous said...

Spar isn't going to close before Tesco build so yes it's a MAJOR PROBLEM

@WR15 said...

Leaving aside that the figure registered objectors on the MHDC website was under 500.

How do you count the people who didn't object?

Under the planning system, you only write in if you object and letters came from up to several hundred miles away.

If you only count the people registered to vote in Tenbury (Not St Michaels, Burford, Rochford or Leysters etc) then you have 2130.

So if we say 50% of the objectors came from Tenbury (it was actually less) then that's 250 out of 2130.

Doubtless some of the 2130 didn't get around to writing, and many will not care either way, but I can't see how anyone can claim that the majority are against the development.

Anonymous said...

You could say that Tesco should build a shop only to cater for a populus of 2130.How big would that be ?

@WR15 said...

I'm quite happy to acknowledge that 494 people wrote letters of objection, but the wider you throw the net, the higher the number of people who didn't. There are said to be 50,000 people who live within a 20 minute drive of Tenbury. So 1% objected? The letters of objections came from even further away. So should I include all the people in that catchment area too?

@WR15 said...

I calculate that 111 people filled in the Tenbury Futures questionnaire that live in the Tenbury Town Council ward area. 77 were against having a supermarket on the site and 34 were either for or undecided. So a clear majority against, but what of the rest of the population. Were those against a supermarket more motivated to complete a questionnaire?

@WR15 said...

Sorry, too many numbers. After all this isn't an election. It doesn't matter if 1 or 10,000 people write letters of objection. Planning applications are considered on planning grounds and not popularity.

Anonymous said...

WR15 Your comment about the last application
Why do I think this?


The first reason for refusal is all about size and design. These decisions are subjective. I have felt all along that the design is wrong and the size too large. I'm not architecturally trained, but I know a good design when I see one (although another person looking at the same design may well disagree). When backed into a corner in the past Tesco have appointed "eminent" designers who have come up with stunning designs. Size will still be an issue, Tesco will want to maximise the size of the store to maximise their return on investment, whilst the site demands a smaller store to allow sufficient car parking, access and room for the River side walk.

As you have said "size too large"(still the same size on this application).Hope to see your name on the MHDC website ojections list.

@WR15 said...

I'm still reading my way through all the documents, and consulting with people who know far more than I do before making a final decision.

Ian said...

"How do you know?" . . . "800+ objections thats how I know" -

WR15 - you know that this kind of nonsensical reply hardly deserves a response from you. I think I'll retire until I get a more intelligent reply (Lesley, are you there?).

Anonymous said...

Your wrong Anon.....
Last Application 2281 Sq m
Current Application 2310 Sq m

More space to do their Home delivery service i guess.

Anonymous said...

Im sure i have heard the saying "size matters " :)

Mr. Longbeard said...

"...Your wrong Anon.....
Last Application 2281 Sq m
Current Application 2310 Sq m..."

Every little helps ;-)

Tenbury Futures said...

After having a look over the 'new' plans it's clear that we're now dealing with the following behemoth:

An 'A1' Class supermarket.
This is no longer an application for a food superstore.. Instead the A1's are the 'aircraft carriers' of their world. This may explain why this new application wants an even bigger floorspace than the last (rejected) one which was regarded by many as 'just too big for the town'.

They can (now) offer-up cut-price versions of the following services and goods as: a pharmacy, fishmonger, estate agent, a bookshop, a post office, a cafe, a newsagent, hardware and discounted electrical goods (the list goes on).

Aggressive Discounting Capability
Small local stores just don't have the buying-power that these bruisers have. While this will certainly bring about 'new competition' it's all one-sided - like 'David and Goliath' trying to get your attention in the same small street i.e. one of them is massive, has it all and is quite happy about hitting the little guy to get their own way.

In Llandrindod Wells our contact who is a local trader there says that within months of their new Tesco store being completed it was actively and aggressively targetting and undercutting other high st shops in the town. He says "In the first 3 months they (Tesco) have devastated the local high street to the tune of 35% to 64% downturn"

He adds: "The Question they (Tenbury Town Council) must ask themselves is WHERE is the increase in customers that Tesco will happilly predict - going to come from - hardly Ludlow or Leominster".

Do the Maths..
Just look at the maths.. Tesco have predicted sales of £280,000 a week. This can only largely come out of the tills of existing Tenbury highstreet shops. As such it can only have a hugely detrimental effect on our town's highstreet.

Anonymous said...

A little more space to fit in their Tesco Value JUNK.

Anonymous said...

So Bowketts isn't an A1 supermarket then?

Anonymous said...

tenbury futures are now bowketts futures
the peoples plan is a smoke ring
early 70s
Bowketts required planning permission for a discount supermarket they did not care about the shops then now the tables are turn this shows that bowketts are there for themselves

Mr. Longbeard said...

Tenbury futures over egging the pudding again!!!!

I think you'll find quite a lot of class A1 commercial shops in Tenbury it kind off how the planning system appears to work.

So are bowketts the the behemoth and Spar the aircraft carrier or is it the otherway around?? So that'd make the butchers a small frigate maybe.

Just using your over emotional sensationalist language fella.

Please feel free to click my name and see where I believe you are wrong.....

Tenbury Futures said...

Tesco Spin in the New Application...

Some of the token gestures from Tesco in the latest documents defy belief. It just goes to further highlight the general arrogance of the company described by Friends of the Earth as "Corporate Bullies" * and the level of contempt Tesco hold for local people.

1. Sustainable Design
Let's just highlight some of the commonly-used renewable technology used nowadays to minimise energy bills in both commercial and domestic developments large and small.. For instance: Solar PV panels, Solar Water Heating Panels, Ground Source Heating, Heat Exchangers etc.

In Tesco's sustainable build they use (I quote) "glass and timber frame". So in reality they're just going for 'solar gain' - the most basic of sustainable principles available to them (and the cheapest option) - similar to way a conservatory warms up on a sunny day. Tesco Spin

2. Running Hops Up the Side of the Building
I quote: "...hops and hop yards, which will be introduced to the site using wooden frames, wires and climbing plants...". Now we're no experts on hops but even the simplest of homework shows that growing and maintaining hops is a lot of work. For example, they need spraying fortnightly when in season, without which they will die from: downy mildew (virtually a certainty), red spider mite or aphid attack. So it sounds like Tesco are going to need to hire a professional to look after them or they're likely to die on their feet. So that'll leave a blank timber trellis most of the year and (unless they invest in professional tending of their hops) the summers too. Tesco Spin

3. Celebrating the Old Infirmary Building
This takes the biscuit really.. I quote: "The footprint of the RBB Building will be remembered by casting it where it once stood..." then etchings on the widows to talk about it's past roles. So let's get this right - they're highlighting and celebrating an old town building of character that sits within the town's conservation area. But.. The elephant in the room of course is that they will have had it demolished to build their superstore on top of it! Tesco Spin

*Read More Here: http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/briefings/super_markets_corporate_bullies.pdf

Ian said...

"The Question they (Tenbury Town Council) must ask themselves is WHERE is the increase in customers that Tesco will happilly predict - going to come from - hardly Ludlow or Leominster" . . . the answer, presumably, is from the very large number of Tenbury people who currently do their main supermarket shopping outside Tenbury Wells.

Anonymous said...

TENBURY FUTURES what about the aldi roof in ludlow that cost to maintain it made of grass u are losing the argument
the bridge idea is down the pan give up u self appointed bunch of idiots Tesco WILL bring hope to a dying town

Anonymous said...

Full planning permission is sought for redevelopment of the site for a small
convenience supermarket, together with associated car parking, access and servicing
arrangements and landscaping.

Taken from Tescos planning application on the MHDC website note it says "small convenience supermarket "
2310 Sq m.. 24,000 odd square foot a small convenience supermarket , as WRI5 would say total "TOSH"!!

Anonymous said...

trouble is that supermarkets r like wasps. If one arrives and sees a titbit then all the others will want a piece of the action too. This happend in brecon. they let one in eventually and then within a year or so the others wantd to cash in. now they av loads. onece they let 1 in the council there then had no defence against the rest.

Anonymous said...

WR15 can we stop publishing this Mr Anon's comments please it is rather offensive, and personally attacks people. WHICH GOES AGAINST YOUR OWN DISCLAIMER!!

@WR15 said...

Can you give me more of a clue to which comment you are referring please.

Anonymous said...

"TENBURY FUTURES what about the aldi roof in ludlow that cost to maintain it made of grass u are losing the argument
the bridge idea is down the pan give up u self appointed bunch of idiots Tesco WILL bring hope to a dying town"

this comment

Anonymous said...

Tenbury futures like attacking people but they dont like it back
i agreed with anon they are a bunch of idiots

Anonymous said...

Infact WR15 you knew which comment I was referring to. Because almost every comment this Mr/Mrs Anon does is offensive and personally attacks people but you continue to entertain him by publishing them. Either change the disclaimer or follow the disclaimer

@WR15 said...

I don't think the comment in itself is unreasonable. Tenbury Futures is a kind of organisation and not a person, but it has no published recognised committee structure, officers or membership. It has (perhaps not intentionally) mislead a number of people.

Anonymous said...

I think its clear that Tenbury futures are an anti Tesco at any cost group providing they protect their own interests.

If Tesco are beaten I fully expect the group to fade into memory and play no part or take any interest in the development of the cattle market site and leave it a barren wasteland.

They'll get to keep their precious infirmary building but it'll remain boarded up, unloved, unused and slowly decaying.

Anonymous said...

Yet again WR15 showing is biased side. Well done there WR15.

@WR15 said...

I was somewhat surprised and bemused by Tenbury Futures analogy
"This is no longer an application for a food superstore.. Instead the A1's are the 'aircraft carriers' of their world."

Well if the proposed Tenbury store is an "aircraft carrier" then what is Ludlow's Tesco which is about 50% larger or Leominster's Morrison which is almost twice the size or Kidderminster's Tesco which is almost four times the size.

OK it's large by Tenbury standards, being twice the size of Bowkett's & Spar combined, but that is because it wants to attract back the large percentage of people who find the existing stores too small and travel to Ludlow, Leominster & Kidderminster.

You could build in excess of 11 stores of the proposed size on the deck of an aircraft carrier.

@WR15 said...

I don't think there are plans to grow hops, the plans show the use of vitis coignetiae.

The RHS Woody Plant Committee awarded Vitis coignetiae an Award of Garden Merit and described it as:

"Very strong-growing, large deciduous tendril-climber with slightly lobed, broad-ovate leaves to 30cm long, turning scarlet and crimson in autumn. Insignificant flowers and small, black berries"

@WR15 said...

Tenbury Futures say that "Tesco have predicted sales of £280,000 a week"

The combined sales of Bowkett's & Spar is in the region of £144,000 a week.

It is estimated that 68% of food shopping is currently done out of Town.

Yes, all agree that some of the money now spent in Bowkett's & Spar will instead be spent in Tesco, but they will still be viable, after all "because it (Tesco) doesn't have support from the majority of the community"

Anonymous said...

WR15 is in cukcoo land he is talking out of his a**

Tenbury Futures said...

Some interesting discussions ongoing..

We'd like to clarify a few things as they've come up though:

Futures' Makeup
We've always said [and indeed it does still on our blog] that we are made up of a mix of concerned local residents, [from parents with young families to retired individuals] and local highstreet businesses. We've purposefully not evolved a formal structure as in the past some members were also involved in the 'TesNO' organisation and were harassed in the street locally for having the views they did which we wanted to try and avoid more with the Futures organisation by limiting individual naming. We've never claimed to have a formal structure though, have made our make-up overt to Tenbury Town Council in correspondence and our blog has always carried a sentence summarising the nature of our general make-up.

Access to Superstores Locally
This seems to go round and round on this blog.. As far as many of us are concerned we have good access to a range of shops in the town already - from small supermarkets to bespoke foods and other goods. In addition the large supermarkets can be accessed within 15 or so minutes' drive in Ludlow. Many on this blog have already mentioned the ease of online shopping locally too and the small or slight cost of delivery to the WR15 postcode [£3 ish on top of the usual shop depending on where you shop/when you want delivery]. Not all have access to the internet locally but many elderly people already have individuals shop for them or help them to. We can't see how this would be different if there were another large supermarket in the town. Unless you live literally next door those elderly that have help shopping will still need help and it would still involve local car journeys etc.

Tesco and Hops
If you look on the planning portal's > 'Revised Proposal' document then you'll see the following: "Tenbury Wells is also well known for it's hops and hop yards, which will be introduced at the site utilising wooden frames, wires and climbing plants". That sounds like they're going to try and grow hops to us..

Aldi's Roof in Ludlow
Green Roofs are an interesting solution as far as we can see. The precedent has been set locally with Aldi Ludlow. It's a shame though that Tesco don't recognise this technology's relevance when it gushes in it's PR that this latest plan is 'sustainable'. The grass roof that's been on the Discovery Centre in Craven Arms for a number of years seems to work year round, takes little or no maintenance and helps insulate the centre to boot. As they effectively look after themselves though we think that they're substantially different from token PR gestures like growing hops up walls - which is a very different plant, can be maintenance-heavy and has many more complexities than simple grasses.

@WR15 said...

Re Hops: The landscaping plans show the actual species to be planted.

Tenbury Futures said...

It sounds like the arm's not talking to the hand then in Tesco's multi-million pound consultative/PR machine. It's clearly a plan that's been knocked-together as a faintly-cloaked facsimile of the last rejected one and that the documents and claims aren't all quite in synch.

Anonymous said...

Interesting to see Tesco say they propose to build a "convenience supermarket" I thourght Tesco Express were their convenience store format .As we all know you included WR15 this is a monster for the size of population .

Anonymous said...

Who ever said it looks hideous obviously has not seen the state of the said area in the last few days. That area is falling apart daily!As it stands it is the biggest embarrassment in this town.For or against, the biggest crime is that it was allowed to get in that state years ago.Can someone remind me when the cattle market stopped?

Anonymous said...

I was talking about the Tesco as Hideous.

I never once said the cattle market wasn't.

The cattle market can be done up better than letting Tesco on.

Why not a new bridge?

Why not a clothes store?

Why not Maccy d's/KFC?

I would like to say these are ONLY random suggestions.

Suggestions that wouldn't harm the town.

Anonymous said...

There is no need for comments such as WR15 is in cukcoo land he is talking out of his a**
Politeness costs nothing.
Insulting people is pointless. Please will people put their point and let it speak for itself. Please do not resort to personal insults.

Mr. Longbeard said...

Why not a bridge? Cost, time

Why not a clothes shop? Not a big enough market

Why not a fast food joint? Why not ask pizza Diane or heffes or the chippy or the other chippy or the Indian or the Chinese?

Long tall and short of it I believe only one of the big stores could afford to buy the site, develop it and run at a profit..

Not picking on your random suggestions though dude tyre same answers fit many solutions.

Would it be viable for a Tesco ( or a.n.other) to open a store 1/2 or 3/4 size in partnership with the futures group alongside a farmers market or the museum?

Instead of looking at in black or white, think about grey, think about a supermarket or express and............. on the same site.....

Ian said...

"Not all have access to the internet locally but many elderly people already have individuals shop for them or help them to" . . . why do Tenbry Futures appear hold the insulting view that it is only older people who lack internet access. From what I have observed in Tenbury there are plenty of middle aged and younger people who fall into the same category . . . and there are plenty of highly IT literate pensioners!

Rugby fan 72 said...

Mr Longbeard...A new week, a new tack to your blogging, maybe even a convert to the cause....I salute you, you hirsute rogue you....

Anonymous said...

I am a great fan of the cattle market being redeveloped - i was against the original Tesco appplication. This was mostly to do with the size and the impact of the shop on the river front, afterall there is a lot of wildlife that uses that stretch of river - witness the bittern last winter. A sure sign of a healthy river....I have looked at the new plans and to be honest i can't see any real change in the design...could someone point out to me where the significant architectural improvements are and how the store would not adversly impact the river in terms of light polution, proximity etc..

Mr. Longbeard said...

"...Mr Longbeard...A new week, a new tack to your blogging, maybe even a convert to the cause..."

LOL.
I wouldn't say a new tack, maybe a slightly mellower approach.

I still think a supermarket would have longer term benefits for the town (especailly after I spent an hour on Saturday just people watching)

I'm not fully sold on it being Tesco, I'm not fully sold on it being the size proposed, I (maybe in ignorance) don't see the importance of the Infirmary building.

That said I see no tangible alternatives being proposed, least not tangible enough for me to waste ink printing out an objection letter.

The mixed use idea stuck me as I was loitering outside the tourist information office.
We get an alternative, a bit of competition, yet still retain the infirmary for use as the mueseum & tourist information offices, or a farmers market, or a cafe (although cous cous didn't stay long).

To many ideas running around in my head, none of which are fully fledged totally workable for the site a a whole

A Tesco Mole in Tenbury? said...

WR15 have tesco been supplyng you with data and figures again to try and counter past blog comments and stats? Youre clearly one of their Tenbury moles ,theyll treat you as bad as their other staff eventually though.

Anonymous said...

WR15 - how long will it take to build this after planning permission is given?

Bumblebee said...

Back after a stint away.. It's all go here isn't it?

Interesting that a number of people seem to have seen through the thin Tesco PR Veil and have realised that it's pretty much the same application as last time [albeit even bigger].

I too would be interested in a blended solution to the Cattle Market site. Small retail, Re-use of the RBB Building, additional parking and an area that properly benefits* the community would make an interesting start.. Although I note that someone makes the point that when you've let one of the 'big four' in the door that the others will often do all in their power to follow asap and that Councils will have to work with the planning precedent they then set..

[* As opposed to a token and thin strip of car park that could probably only fit a fraction of the space required by the Mistletoe market]. You've got to credit Tescos' impressive PR machine though. They could make athlete's foot sound attractive. I'm now expecting an expertly crafted reply linked to this of course.. :-)

@WR15 said...

I wonder is there a confusion between the Holly & Mistletoe Auction & the National Mistletoe Day Market (which didn't run last year & is not planned for this year)?

The former is now too large to use the Cattle Market site. (Due to the car parking requirements)

The later would comfortably fit in the area in front of the proposed store.

@WR15 said...

I'm surprised by the comments that this is much the same application as last time. (Perhaps I'm looking at the wrong plans)

@WR15 said...

In reply to early comments;

Rather than just object, I'm reading the planning documents, that how I get the data.

I have heard that if everything goes through then the store should be open in Nov/Dec 2012.

Of course, it might have to go to appeal, which would in a way suit Tesco as they wouldn't have to pay any S106 money, or provide free buses etc, and have their costs paid by the local council tax payers. (But not those living in Hereford or Shropshire)

Anonymous said...

i hear on a grapevine that someone or tenbury futures are leaflet dropping around the houses with a bunch of lies with loads of scaremongering

Anonymous said...

Fair play to Tenbury Futures they know how to wind Anon up.....Perhaps Anon would like a few leaflets to drop threw there letter box, may be they want to wall-paper their house with them :)

Lesley said...

I see John 'Boycey' Challis, our celebrity supporter, has sent his objection letter in - did he make any valid planning law objection last time? I don't remember, but its 'retail bullies' this time. No disrespect to him personally of course, but I do think that general objections from far and wide carry the danger of diluting the views of local people that are directly affected and potentially valid planning objections.

Roche Moutonnee said...

JC was involved in the long Anti Tesco Campaign at Ludlow and still has some pretty strong views about his old foe clearly. Nice medial moraine in your blog pic Lesley.

Anonymous said...

How many car parking spaces are there?

There is not enough car parking in Tenbury already.....there must be 30 cars that park on the Cattle Market already on a daily basis. If the public realm works go ahead and spaces are lost due to that more will be needed.....that means half of the 80 or so proposed spaces will be used up.....where will everyone park their cars?? Sorry, i will have to object on these grounds alone..........

Rugby fan 72 said...

"I'm surprised by the comments that this is much the same application as last time. (Perhaps I'm looking at the wrong plans)"

...

No WR15, just "Tesco Tints" available in all good A1 stores....

Lesley said...

Roche, the Aletch Glacier in Switzerland. I think I might be the only non anonymous person on here!!

Anyhoo, I have perused some of the docs. The cynic in me thinks that the design leaves scope for the Spar building to be removed at a later date - presumably when the Spar has ceased trading and the owner only needs to compensate the smaller traders there when he/she has little prospect of leasing the main shop (meaning Tesco would pay less). Having said that, if this does happen, at least the Tesco store front is set back off the road, so the visual impact is lessened. I think the infirmary footprint is a bit naff to be honest. I personally don't think it's a particularly architecturally significant building. I think they may have to work a bit harder on this aspect.

I am worried about the traffic. We have to somewhat accept increased traffic with modern life - when we first moved into the town (from 7 miles out) in the mid 90's it was quiet along the road we live. Now, I can't have the windows open at either end of the working day and large lorries go past all the time. However, Teme St has been problematic during roadworks etc. and drivers are more impatient and less courteous thesedays - at times it can already take an age to get out of the cattle market car park. I would like to think that people that live in the town could alleviate this problem by not coming in their cars, but it amazes me when I see people driving to shops, school etc. literally yards from where they live, so that won't happen!

I do have mixed feelings, but I would rather see this than what I currently see on this site. If Tesco can be made to invest some s106 money to put right some other things at the same time, then that's even better.

Lesley said...

Anon, the more car parking spaces there are, the greater the potential traffic problem at the site, so they can't win either way. Tesco can't be held responsible for the existing lack of parking in the town.

Mr. Longbeard said...

"...There is not enough car parking in Tenbury already.....there must be 30 cars that park on the Cattle Market already on a daily basis..."

And if Mr Chase decides to repair his gate and lock it up tomorrow, as he is entitled to, what then?

I love being able to park there, without that ground I doubt I'd go into town half as much, but it isn't ours, if town parking is a problem without it (which it is) then its been a long time in the making.

Rugby fan 72 said...

Parking: According to MHDCs Economic Prosperity Report, specifically EP 18 - para 3.6.21 states:

"Any redevelopment or Alternative use of the site shown.....will need to pay due regard to car parking requirements associated with the proposed development and wider car parking provisions within the town as whole [sic]".


Beardy, you as many others, already use the site to park. and it is agreed the Mr C could take this "favour" away at any time. The question is why do you park there? I suggest the answer is "because there is no where else to park".

The provision of car parking spaces for a store of this size should be in the order of 130....

This is without the net loss of parking for the cars that currently use the CM on a daily basis - nor to mention the loss of spaces in front of Spar/ Lloyds and the old firestation, or those lost when the public realm works are completed...

Clearly a smaller development which provides more car parking would not only comply to the MHDC policy but would benefit the town as a whole...."no parking" could lead to Tenbury having traffic problems like Bewdley prior to the by pass being built & Stourbridge -this would kill the town by keeping people away as opposed to attracting them!

This alone is a valid "planning reason" to object to the application......

Taggart lover said...

"The footprint of the RBB Building will be remembered by casting it where it once stood..."

Being a fan of crime and murder shows i think the irony of this "Outline" on the tarmac is very apt....

"there's been a murrrrda" (In a dodgy Scottish accent)....

Mr. Longbeard said...

I fully acknowledge that there is a lack of parking in town; it would appear that MHDC do too and this is probably why they included the parking statement in their Economic Prosperity Report.

Is 100 spaces enough for a store this size? I don’t know, many say no it should be 130 or greater.

However the land shouldn’t be being used for parking now, we have become complacent and accepted its use into the towns available parking over the years and we are now throwing the proverbial rattle out of the pram now it is being threatened. For this reason, no matter what happens to the site I see it as a net gain in potential parking.

What will we, the town, do during development of the site? By the looks of it Tesco will close the site for 12 months (give or take) to develop their store, Tenbury Futures being reliant on funding, grants, fundraising and charity may have to bar access for longer whilst developing their plans for the site……

Tenbury Futures said...

Potential Tesco HGV Deliveries

We understand Lesley's concerns about traffic and congestion in town even if we don't share her final analysis. If you look at Tesco's 'new' delivery plan it suggests that there will be up to 3x Tesco-branded HGV deliveries inwards a day. In addition, 3x Independent HGV deliveries inwards per day. These are all expected to be large 14.25m articulated HGVs.

SubT: Up to 6x 14.25m Articulated HGVs inwards a day.

Our contact at Ludlow Tesco told us during the last application that Tesco normally have a separate frozen delivery each day too at Ludlow and that they expected Tenbury to be on the same round [this additional wan't mentioned in the last or this 'new' delivery schedule].

This could potentially add another HGV delivery per day.

SubT: Up to 7x HGV 14.25m Articulated HGVs inwards a day.

These artics will of course be moving back and forth over the scheduled old Teme Bridge [the stipulated primary access to the A456].

TOTAL: Up to 14x large 14.25m Tesco-related articulated HGV movements over the old Teme Bridge each day.

Delivery Time Creep
Our Ludlow contact also explained that Tesco will tell you that they'll deliver within a certain time window but in reality they very seldom manage this - with independent HGVs also coming at all hours too.

Total Tesco-Related HGV Movements Per Week?
This takes us towards [up to 14x 7] nearly 100 additional Tesco-related articulated HGV movements over the Teme Bridge per week - potentially from early morning to late at night. Even if these sums are out and it's -say- 80 additional HGV movements a week [allowing for quieter sundays or no frozen delivery, one piggy-backing on an HGV going to another shop in town etc] this will still be a huge additional strain on local traffic. Remember all it takes to stop two-way traffic on the bridge is a vehicle of white van size. Consider too that large artics exiting the site will need to cross the road to go back over the bridge [potentially at all hours]. Is this level of additional congestion really acceptable to local road users or pedestrians?

Additional Van Deliveries
Tesco don't have to declare whether they'll start a home delivery van network out of Tenbury at this point but it could happen to help alleviate the strain on those that use Ludlow.

@WR15 said...

So less than the number of lost lorries crossing the bridge each day looking for the Burford Business Park and Morrison Lorries (including Petrol Tankers) short cutting to and from Leominster.

Anonymous said...

the business park is something that's already there. we DO have a say in whether we want all of tescos lories over the teme bridge though

Tenbury Futures said...

Holly and Mistletoe...

WR15 said: "I wonder is there a confusion between the Holly & Mistletoe Auction & the National Mistletoe Day Market... ?"

But the latest Tesco 'Revised Proposal' document online states:

"The space between the store and the rear of the Teme Street buildings will be a dual purpose pedestrian route and space for market stalls for local suppliers to sell their produce direct."

This would seem to be about 20m by 5m [or less depending on the need for pedestrian/disability access past it as it's a throughfare].

If you click our title it'll take you to a Daily Telegraph article on the Holly and Mistletoe sale dated Dec 2010. We're not sure when these images were taken [they still show the old Fever Hospital which was illegally demolished on the site] but they do give an indication of the scale of the Tenbury H+M sale.

It would seem to be much more than 20m by 5m from the Telegraph's H+M images though. In fact it would seem to take up a large section of the left [old courtyard] area between the listed workhouse and it's associated buildings.

Just more ill thought-through PR window dressing from the 'new' Tesco application then?

@WR15 said...

Sorry I don't understand your point.

The space between the Spar yard & Tesco is enough for a few market stalls. There is no intention to hold the Commercial Auction there.

Even if "Plan B" was implemented the site would be far too small for the Commercial Auction.

Anonymous said...

Tenbury Futures have run out of steam
plan B have been forgotten and now in their latest campaign they gone back to the idea that Tesco will cause a nightmare of traffic problems.
IT IS ONLY THE DESIGN NOW GOT TO GO THROUGH THE TEST where have they been these last through months
i know the local nut house.

Anonymous said...

the peopl of tenbury dont want tesco. good for tenbury futures ,they av the balls to stand up to tesco. tesco lost last time and they;l lose agin this time

Anonymous said...

If 67% of the main food spend is made out of Tenbury to Tesco Ludlow & Morrisons Leominster, does that mean if the Tesco in Tenbury is allowed it would increase the traffic by 67% .If it is it will result in total gridock.

@WR15 said...

No.

A percentage of the cars that would have crossed the bridge and turned left for Ludlow or right for Kidderminster, would turn right before the bridge.

So that traffic is no longer using the bridge.

A percentage that would have passed the end of the bridge on route to Ludlow or Kidderminster would now cross the bridge.

Previously that traffic wouldn't have been using the bridge.

Net result, the same number are using the bridge.

I agree that only any given day, the numbers may not balance, but given the disbursement of the settlements & the likely customer base, at best it balances out, at worst it decreases the percentage of "new" traffic.

I know some will say this is rubbish, but it's a well used and proven model, that has been accepted in a number of planning appeals.

Lesley said...

Don't be silly anon @ 19.57, it merely means that a good proportion of Tenbury folk do a good deal of their food shopping elsewhere - which probably equates to one trip a week (once a fortnight in my case, once a month for some and no trips at all for online shoppers). If they were able to do this shop locally, this would *not* increase the traffic in the town by 67% !!!!!

Also, to anon @ 18.44, with the greatest respect, is it possible (if we are adults here) not to use text speak? I find it hard to take seriously people who don't appear to have basic command of the English language!

I am as concerned as anyone about the potential for traffic problems. However, that is to some extent caused by our insistence thesedays in using our cars for the smallest of journeys. I personally do not want a huge car park attached to any supermarket (if we have to have one) as car parks, in my opinion a) constitute the ugliest part of most developments and b)cause a greater problem regarding increased traffic. I dare say that only a very small proportion of purchases in the supermarket proposed would be unsuitable to be carried away by foot.

Could I make a plea (as I have before) that people make an effort to enable others to address their posts - even Anon1, Anon2 etc would be better. We are not talking about giving your name, address, phone number, shoe size and what you had for breakfast, but really!

Anonymous said...

What about the people who live in Burford and the surrounding area they would have use the bridge .

Lesley said...

Anon @ 20.48 - they are likely to be using the bridge multiple times a week anyway. So they use it maybe once extra per week to save them going to Tesco Ludlow or whatever. I would argue that they wlll just accommodate their supermarket trip with a journey they would have made anyway.

As WR15 points out, if we could somehow prevent all the lorries crossing the bridge that merely go through the town but don't actually service the town (Morrisons is an example but there are hundreds of others daily) then we'd see the HGV traffic significantly decrease even with a supermarket.

Anonymous said...

I shop on my way home from work. I live here, but it is convenient for me to shop on my way home (or at lunch time). It doesn't matter how good the shops in Tenbury are, I will always do some of my shopping on the way home from work (or at lunch time).

Traffic Jam said...

Re Increase in traffic...Mssrs Tesco estimate that it will add 174vehicles (348 journeys) during the peak, which they have as 1530>1630 (aka the school run). It is not only the bridge that causes bottle necks, Crow corner and the Market Tavern are also too narrow for a bus, lorry tractor etc to pass...how can an additional 2000 car journeys a day not have a detrimental effect on the traffic in town? Remember which ever direction you come from you will need to "cross the traffic" when either leaving or entering the site.....O and i commend Tesco for recognising that "2 way passage of larger vehicles such as buses and cars is not possible" on the bridge which is only 4.5m wide.

I fear Gridlock..... said...

If the provision of car parking is so small and the cars currently parked on the CM won't be allowed to park there and Teme St is going to loose parking spaces where will these 40-50 carss go? Will there be lines of traffic waiting to find a space in the Tesco car park?...(Wouldn't that effectively block the entrance and back up onto Teme St?)

Anonymous said...

To the Anon who said this is only the design it has to go through the test.

Once the store is there and 'tested' there is no going back when it doesn't work. And yes I say when we are stuck with it.

Anonymous said...

Phill grove said in a town council meet jst before last christmas that the number of objectors to tesco last time was 'over 800'.

Anonymous said...

lesly it woz me using wot u call text speak. i think as long as i get a point across then that is fine. its offensive to mock my typin tho. some of us arent as clevr as u clerly

Anonymous said...

I spent an hour in the Town centre this morning and often there was no traffic at all for up to a minute at a time.

Anonymous said...

When today? 1AM!!!

Ian said...

I must say that based on my personal experience the congestion on the bridge and the dearth of car parking are somewhat exaggerated. I can't recall ever being unable to find somewhere (lawful) to park in Tenbury and as a frequent commuter over the bridge can't really remember being held up for more than a few minutes. Anyway, what's the rush - a few minutes delay (if there is one) isn't the end of the world.

Car counter said...

I was in town as well and saw a lot of tractors, lorries and even a couple of buses which are soon to be a rare sight in town.....

Mr. Longbeard said...

Anon@ 13:31

That's not far off my random observations from Saturday afternoon (15:00hrs).

No more than 4 to 6 people on either side of the street at any given time, and although all of the street parking was occupied the traffic was minimal oft with periods where one could look up and down the street and not see any moving vehicles.

Anonymous said...

Teme Street often quiet, must come as a shock if you only drive through at peak times.

Private James Frazer said...

I've just been stuck on the Teme Bridge in traffic because an artic was trying to get across it into town creating the usual queues on each side. I note that someone says that Tesco themselves admit that you can't get one of their standard artics across the bridge -and- a car on the other side at the same time. "Doomed captain Mainwaring - we're all doomed!".

Anonymous said...

Tenbury Futures latest campaign nothing different nothing new
Tesco WILL bring a breathe of fresh air through Tenbury ALL the traders that are showing these lies and deceit posters on their windows will be sorry at the end of the day
TESCO do not destroy shops and town centres it is groups like Tenbury FUTURES that are responsible for holding back Change
May be if every one that is in favour of tescos is to boycott theses shops until the Plans are passed and then bring Tenbury Futures into submission.
When they say Tenbury is special not to have chain stores that is not true
IN DAYS GONE BY we had a international store where the shoe shop is. Tenbury is nothing now
what it was then
Tenbury Futures start telling the truth not lies and deceit people have had enough of you bringing our Town .

Anonymous said...

anon u dont speak for tenbury thats 4 sure. the town dusnt want or need tesco. tesco will only bring more cars ,lories an job loss. breth of fresh air ,bring it to its nees more like

Tesco - The Highstreet's Grim Reaper said...

"TESCO do not destroy shops and town centres.."

There are over 200 anti-Tesco campaigns across the UK in towns and cities. They're run by people of all ages and backgrounds who passionately believe Tesco are the worst offender when it comes to destroying highstreet competition.

Don't take my word for it though, click my link above to see more.

frequent mover said...

I remember back in the 1970's when supermarkets first started to really become a feature.

At the time they seemed to be a welcome support to time pressed shoppers and those interested in a bigger range and the prices on good quality products were fantastic.

Shopping at a national supermarket now is a different prospect and whilst I can understand that some of the people who have never lived anywhere with a supermarket may think that a large supermarket will be a boost will I suspect come to realise their mistake if Tesco (or any other national) arrive.

Bowketts and our other retailers in Tenbury are not perfect (nor are Tesco)but they are local and their profits stay local, Tesco will decimate our towns stores and ultimately drive more shoppers away as the diversity of the high street decreases.

If Morrisons at Leominster or Tesco at Ludlow are twice the size of the proposed Tenbury store, then those who seek 'variety' will still tend to shop at the larger 'ranged' stores.

Sadly on a wet/ cold winters day when you can't find a parking place, almost anyone will park in Tesco's car park and buy their shopping in Tesco, partly time pressures, partly our ever increasing mobility issues relating to increased longevity and for some obesity, partly laziness. It is a seductive proposition that will damage our high street.

Bowketts don't trade in our town for our sake, but if they get it wrong they feel the consequences pretty quickly as they have limited other store incomes, Tesco (or others) don't have that worry.

Tesco are also very good at making profits - and if that involves Tesco Tenbury running at a loss for a couple of years whilst they undercut the other retailers then so be it.

I am new to Tenbury (6 months now) and have lived in most areas of the UK, in my experience, Tenbury (for a town of its size) is booming.

Please keep the major national retailers out of our town.

Anonymous said...

i hear on the grape vine spar managar puting pressure on the shop keepers to display tenbury futures lies and deceit
they aRE A BUNCH OF BULLIES

Anonymous said...

FEQUENT MOVER WHERE DOES BOWKETTS profits go not to tenbury but for their holiday fund for the family

@WR15 said...

I have to admit I don't get why Bowkett's profits are good for Tenbury & Tesco's aren't. Only 5 people benefit from Bowkett's profits, but I would imagine that nearly everyone in Tenbury that has a private or company pension, benefits from the income from Tesco shares.

I think Rowlands is (or was until recently) owned by a German company. No one seems to mind that those profits go abroad.

Spar is owned by A.F. Blakemore & son ltd which is a Private ltd company so again the profits goes to a few shareholders, who are not local.

Local Money Spent said...

"A study by nef (the new economics foundation) found that £1 spent in a local shop selling local produce puts twice as much money back into the local economy as £1 spent in a supermarket.

An analysis of procurement spending conducted by Northumberland County Council with NEF has shown that £1 spent with local suppliers is worth £1.76 to the local economy, while £1 spent with suppliers out of the area is worth only £0.36."

From Tescopoly.com

Some of the local shops do use out of town suppliers and central distribution as well as local but they also stock local and regional goods that are locally delivered. We all know the ridiculous food miles scenario Tesco need to go through to stock local apples so it's unlikely they'll want to work in the same way stocking local and out of town goods and dealing with local supply chains.

@WR15 said...

Spar doesn't buy locally, Rowland's doesn't buy locally, and the vast majority of Bowkett's lines aren't local.

Stop talking Tosh said...

You need to do your homework WR15
Spar dont support local suppliers
Not a bad accolade!!!
Have you never heard of Heart of England (HEFF)


Prince Charles made wholesaler Peter Blakemore one of his business ambassadors for his commitment to responsible trading.

The MD of AF Blakemore & Son received a video message from the prince in which he was named West Midlands Ambassador.

The Prince told Blakemore: "We are nearly always dependent on the talents of individual business leaders to find a way to make things happen. My Ambassador Award recognises the contribution of those individuals whose unwavering dedication and commitment has made a real difference in the organisations and communities in which they work."

Blakemore attracted the praise of the Prince for ­supporting local suppliers and for the Blakemore Foundation, a community fund that receives 1% of the company's pre-tax profits.

frequent mover said...

Bowketts profits do have benefits locally (I truly don't believe that they don't spend any of them here).
Spar (A F Blakemore) also have some local benefits in their managerial / social spend(though perhaps less than Bowketts?).
Tesco will derive their profits at the expense of a substantial majority of our local store owners many of which are wholly locally owned (they will have a social responsibility budget for local spend).
I am still sadly convinced from my experience of living in bigger towns with Tesco/Waitrose/ Sainsbury/ Asda, that we do have a substantially larger, more unique, characterful and more varied high street than that will remain after 2 years of a major supermarket.
I hope the objectors succeed and I do not get proved to be accurate in that projection.

@WR15 said...

A yes HEFF. Heart of England Fine Foods. Local producers up to hundreds of miles away. Their web site mentions that they are suppliers to Tesco. I don't spend a lot of time in Spar, and can't recall seeing local produce, but I'll take you're word that it's there. Actually I used to buy some excellent bread from Spar sourced from a local(ish) bakery until they closed down.

You're mising the point said...

It astounds me that "profit" seems to be a rude word....if you make an investment in a business wouldn't you expect to get a return?

"only 5 people profit form the profits made in Bowkett's..."

What about the 60 odd people who work there?

The focus on the food stores in town is somewhat short sighted - what about the rest of the shops and businesses that will be hit by the arrival?

NSPCC said...

Interesting to see that on A F Blakemores (Spar) website there is a photo showing the handing over of a cheque for £1M to the NSPCC.

The manager of Tenbury and the Manager of Birmingham University branches are tagged as "along with employees from the Tates Tenbury Wells".

@WR15 said...

I have no problem with Bowkett's making a profit, my point is that the dividend is paid to only 5 people, whereas the Tesco dividend supports pension funds.

"What about the 60 odd people who work there?" Local staff will work at Tesco too. Whether, like Bowkett's staff they will also be told that they can only have staff discount on full price items, I don't know.

Doesn''t like bad mouthing... said...

I can't be convinced that who Bowkett's pay the earnigns of their business (which the family has invested in and built up over 100 years)is anything to do with anyone other than the Bowkett family. Who do other family owned businesses pay dividends to? I suppose we could all draw a parrallel with Carillion when discussing Caldicott's, or how about going to live in Russia or China.....what utter socialist Tosh....

Not to mention how many local jobs the family has provided to the town in that time.....

As for discounted items.....where the hell did that come from? O sorry, WR15 is demonising local family business to welcome in a "pension fund paying" multi national.....

@WR15 said...

Bowkett's is a perfectly respectable business, but that's what it is; a business. A business run for the benefit of the (5)shareholders. Tesco is also run for the benefit of shareholders, they just happen to have more.

My point is, that as yet no one has convinced me that spending money in Bowkett's is more beneficial to Tenbury than spending money in the Co-Op or the Spar (or Tesco if they come to Tenbury).

Someone said "what about the staff" but I don't see that it makes any difference if the staff work for any of the above. Their terms and conditions are broadly the same.

Tesco staff get 10% discount off everything except petrol/ cigs/ lottery etc, & so do Bowkett's staff (although I'm told at Bowkett's it's only 10% off full price items and not special offers)
M&S give their staff 15% other stores vary.

Wouldn't it be good to have more competition for the available workforce?

Anonymous said...

"Tesco staff get 10% discount off everything except petrol/ cigs/ lottery etc, & so do Bowkett's staff (although I'm told at Bowkett's it's only 10% off full price items and not special offers)
M&S give their staff 15% other stores vary"

WR15 if Tesco staff get 10% discount off everything except petrol cigs lottery etc. then they don't get 10% off everything

@WR15 said...

and your point is?

No relevance said...

stop grasping at straws to try and make a point....the relevance of pension funds and the like is really a little bit of a pointless dicussion, earlier in the thread it was said the "Futures" had run out of steam and Plan B was forgotten.....

So WR15@Tesco is it you who has run out of steam and has a cross to bear?

Anonymous said...

and your point is?

Pardon me - is that all you have & I don't think you are that daft - the point is you are saying that Tesco staff get more benefits because they get a discount on everything and then in the next breath you say except for cigs lottery and petrol - so - therefore they do not get discount on everything is that agreed? Tesco staff do not get discount on EVERYTHING

also your comment to say that you can't see the difference where staff work is small minded. Some staff are very loyal in certain employment and if there is a threat to their jobs you very sweepingly assume that it's ok they'll get a job somewhere else - it's not as simple as that....

@WR15 said...

So how should I phrase it.

Surely you wouldn't want me to list every line they sell and just leave Petrol, Cigarettes and Lottery cards off the list?

Anonymous said...

Dear of relevance..

"So WR15@Tesco is it you who has run out of steam and has a cross to bear?"

Yup - nail and head truly smashed

Anonymous said...

@WR15

so how should I phrase it.

Surely you wouldn't want me to list every line they sell and just leave Petrol, Cigarettes and Lottery cards off the list?

and your point is?

Anonymous said...

Come on everyone.... this is about a planning application, not about who gets 10p off every £1 they spend.

Anonymous said...

Come on everyone.... this is about a planning application, not about who gets 10p off every £1 they spend.

With respect Mr Anon - I don't believe it's just about a planning application to WR15 from all the previous comments he has made. It get's very personal and feelings run high and then when certain responses are put forward someone always turns up out of the blue in his defence and tries to put things back on track. Unless it's WR15 in cognito (now I've turned cyndrical) (this is a private joke and no-one will get it).

Anonymous said...

You could give Tesco employees 15% discount ,they still would be paying more than for their goodies than the Bowketts crew ..Bowketts at least 15% cheaper than Tesco.

@WR15 said...

No I'm not commenting as anonymous.

I don't think it's me taking the comments of in all directions, I'm usually commenting on what I see as inaccuract comments from others.

Such as Bowketts is cheaper than Tesco. I would reply "that's why several staff members choose to shop elsewhere"

Then of course everytime I publish anything anti Tesco that's fine, but anything anti Futures makes me biased.

It is about planning, but others have decided to confuse matters, and publish thoughts of fancies as viable options.

Anonymous said...

i just ad my shopping delivered made a big saving at tesco

Prince Charles said...

Prince Charles talking about Peter Blakemore.

Click my Name

Anonymous said...

I bought a Hovis at Bowketts and it was £1.00. Last week I bought one at Tesco and it was £1.15!

Anonymous said...

if anon is saying that bowketts is cheaper why are they against another tenbury futures lie

Anonymous said...

WR15 u r a tesco mouthpiece. anything tesco is always put as good in yr posts. u r well biased m8. u want a tesco + so will say anything to make that happen

Point made.... said...

"i just ad my shopping delivered made a big saving at tesco"

So why do we need one in Tenbury?

Anonymous said...

Mr Anon Tesco number 1 Fan

"i just ad my shopping delivered made a big saving at tesco"

You're sorted then but have you tried Asda they profess to make savings of £13 per week on an average Tesco shop and they would not be allowed to advertise this unless it was the truth - so you made a big saving against what - Asda Sainsburys Morrisons Co-op Spar Lidl Aldi Marks and Spencers Nisa Costcutter and did you take into account the cost of delivery and if you are a local staff member as WR15 implies (that's why several staff members choose to shop elsewhere") did you take into account that you would have had your shop reduced by 10% on SOME of the goods purchased - not too clever perhaps you are the source of WR15's information. May be maybe not but if this is the case you are encouraging locals to shop elsewhere when you yourself would have made a better saving if you had shopped local or shopped online at Asda. There is nothing wrong with people shopping elsewhere people should shop where they want to - it's all about personal choice so it leaves me to believe you too have a "cross to bear"

Anonymous said...

WR15

Such as Bowketts is cheaper than Tesco. I would reply "that's why several staff members choose to shop elsewhere"

This comment really leaves me to believe that although you profess to know everything (this is how you come across - WR15 said: I'm usually commenting on what I see as inaccuract comments from others) you know very little about working in a supermarket and that you are maybe talking to a "staff member" (WR15 said: although I'm told at Bowkett's it's only 10% off full price items and not special offers)- it must be a staff member who told you this.

also

In my earlier post I said "your comment to say that you can't see the difference where staff work is small minded. Some staff are very loyal in certain employment and if there is a threat to their jobs you very sweepingly assume that it's ok they'll get a job somewhere else - it's not as simple as that....

You didn't respond to this paragraph..

@WR15 said...

You're not reading my comment in the context that it was intended, but that is probably due to my poor written English.

My comment was in response to

"only 5 people profit form the profits made in Bowkett's..."

What about the 60 odd people who work there?

The staff don't benefit from the profits, they are paid a wage. (OK if a company doesn't make a profit is ceases to trade)

I'm glad that Bowkett's have a large and happy workforce all of whom are loyal and concerned for their jobs.

I was happy & loyal in my former employment right up until they made me and many others redundant. That's life.

Anonymous said...

WR15 said
You're not reading my comment in the context that it was intended, but that is probably due to my poor written English.

I did read it correctly - and you should be careful how you say things.

WR15 said: I was happy & loyal in my former employment right up until they made me and many others redundant. That's life.

(WR15 said: Someone said "what about the staff" but I don't see that it makes any difference if the staff work for any of the above.Co op etc. Their terms and conditions are broadly the same)

I too was at one time made redundant from a place of work I completely loved and was completely loyal to with friends I still keep in touch with today and would still be working there today if it hadn't ceased and so know how it feels.
This is why it is so important to try and keep the workforce in place in healthy businesses as it is now and you too should understand this but I find your attitude blaze. It is not as simple as saying "they will get another job" just because you did - I also got "another job" but would have preferred not to have and even if another employer comes into the area there is no guarantee all the local workforce that have lost jobs - because this will likely be the case - will be re-employed in the same terms and conditions as you believe and some redundant staff would not be re-employed at all because we are all at different ages have different skills and different commitments. It's very risky.

@WR15 said...

How far should we go to protect jobs.

An extreme example; should we have kept all the mines open and running at a loss?

Should all of Tenbury be preserved in aspic with no businesses allowed to come and others forced to stay, to preserve jobs just how they are now?

Anonymous said...

WR15
You're not reading my comment in the context that it was intended

Anonymous said...

If we want to protect jobs we shouldn't close the bridge

Mr. Longbeard said...

Interesting read in this weeks Advertiser re: Gwythers.....

"Very sad because Tenbury used to be a bustling town centre but it has changed a lot"

"I do not think that we will be the only shop to close in Tenbury"

A wee snapshot into the state of highstreet shopping in our little town perhaps??

Anonymous said...

Interesting read in this weeks Advertiser re: Gwythers.....

Mr Longbeard we should ask why? Why are there hardly any shoe shops on our high streets including now Tenbury. I'll tell you and I've noticed this for the past three to four years and have commented on it to friends and family for ages now. It's because shoes are now sold very cheaply in the multiple supermarkets made abroad by people on minute incomes. Tesco sell shoes and so do Asda. How many independent shoe shops are there in the main street in Kidderminster centre excluding the new outside of town retail parks? Where have they gone and why and who let it happen? How can independents compete with such bargain basement prices? If you go abroad there are some fantastic independent shoe shops and not a Tesco in sight. YET...

@WR15 said...

Another reason might be because when I wanted to buy some size 9 leather or Leatherette slippers, I was told that they didn't have any in stock as that was the most popular size & they had sold out. Come back in three weeks they said.

I ordered on ebay and they arrived next day.

Anonymous said...

WR15 - it doesn't surprise me in the least that you wear leatherette slippers...

Mr. Longbeard said...

Anon,
the observations made by the owner are not limited to just his shoe shop, they note a decline in shoppers as a whole, and his prediction of others following does note bode well.

I spent an hour in town last Saturday afternoon, it was a ghost town, very very light traffic (kids could have played street football with little disruption) and the number of actual people walking around could be counted on 2 hands.

@WR15 said...

Well by shopping on ebay I could afford proper Clarkes leather ones.

Anonymous said...

WR15
Well by shopping on ebay I could afford proper Clarkes leather ones.

I truly hope they weren't second hand.

Gone are the days it seems when anyone has any patience. I can't believe you were so utterly desperate for a pair of real leather slippers that you had to order from ebay - which is not usually next day delivery. So, maybe then it's the fault of ebay and the like that people don't shop in proper shops anymore together with multiples selling shoes and the latest splurg of border of town retail parks - independents will have no chance - but who cares - that's life

Anonymous said...

I'm a snakeskin loafer type of guy myself. I don't recall seeing them in Gwythers though - in fact I don't remember seeing much in Gwythers full stop (bless 'em).. The perils of working with a 1970's business model (and stock)?

Anonymous said...

Moderated Comment - Parts Deleted

I for one am not really bothered either way, but i do know the town is in dire need of investment before it dies on its feet.

In Spar today i dont like the way someone was trying to force his views on every customer and trying to get everyone the to sign "no to Tesco petition".Dont try to force your views on people who dont even live in Tenbury or Burford ! i for one will not be signing just because of your attitude !

@WR15 said...

"I truly hope they weren't second hand."

No. BNIB

I often try to buy things in town (because I want them now) but resort to ebay where delivery is often next day or the day after.

Anonymous said...

Online shopping is easy peasy lemon squeezy nowdays WR15. Especially cheap online grocery shopping from Tesco ,but then youd know that already. Why bother letting one bung up Tenbury when it's so quick and easy to order online?

Ludlow Resident said...

I too was asked in Spar Tenbury. I found the chat very informative. But I didn't need the chat as I am a Ludlow resident and know the plight of Tesco

Anonymous said...

So it's OK for the bowketts lorries (of which I've seen 2 deliveries today on the 3 occasions i've drove through town) to block the road as it does a turn in the road at the junction of berrington road, then blocks the road again as it reverses into bowketts delivery entrance, but not for a Tesco lorry to cross the bridge.

I think there are some double standards going on.

Re: Gwythers, it has to be said that they are sadly just far too expensive. No-one on a normal average wage is going to spend the sort of money on shoes that they are asking... Just look at the shoe shops in Kiddy with cheaper prices. That is the sort of shoe shop that will now be needed in Tenbury (and has been needed for some time.)

Tenbury just does not seem to keep up with modern shopping habits and it is losing out as it tries to stay in the past.

I agree with the comment above "Tenbury is dying on it's feet and needs investment" As someone who has lived here all my life, I feel sad that Tenbury looks so neglected at the moment.

Let (any supermarket) develop the C.M. site, do up the river walk, perhaps make a gated entrance to the burgage from the back of the CM site, and most importantly, bring some shoppers back into town.

If Tesco's are prevented from building on the CM site, they will just look elsewhere, most likely an out of town supermarket in Burford that will suck trade out of town. If that happens, the town (collectively) will only have itself to blame

Mr. Longbeard said...

"...the observations made by the owner are not limited to just his shoe shop, they note a decline in shoppers as a whole, and his prediction of others following does note bode well.."

And as if a self fulling prophecy I note that from between the time I made he above comment to last weekend we have one less shop in town with the closure of the small sports / computer type shop oppersite Bowketts.

How many more?

Anonymous said...

I do wonder if some people do their maths before starting a retail venture. By my calculations a shop of that size with a mark-up of 30% needs to sell around £250 of goods a day (as an absolute minimum) to survive. I don't know in any detail what kind of trade this shop did, but it never looked as if it had much stock, and I'm told when people ordered items they never arrived.

Anonymous said...

Tenbury is dying on its feet Tenbury Futures will put the last nail in the coffin R.I.P Tenbury Wells. Tesco will bring that much needed boost to the Town Economy.
THE do gooders like Tenbury Futures Bowketts and Spar have got to wake up in the real world.

Anonymous said...

MR ANON who says "Tenbury is dying on its feet Tenbury Futures will put the last nail in the coffin R.I.P Tenbury Wells. Tesco will bring that much needed boost to the Town Economy.
THE do gooders like Tenbury Futures Bowketts and Spar have got to wake up in the real world"

Aren't do-gooders - good? - are you a do-badder as you disagree with do-gooders? The 3 above mentioned whatever they are are in the real world (whatever that is) and most probably have real concerns and understand the consequences of what will happen if the planning permission is granted. All you can see is shop with cheap products - you see absolutely nothing else. I doubt you shop locally now - you're obviously not a fan of Spar or Bowketts. So do you really care about the Town's economy? - if you did you would care about the existing traders and you would understand concerns - but your comments suggest otherwise. Don't the existing traders contribute by paying business taxes. Please not another cross to bear... You must have this wonderful vision that Tesco's will come and save Tenbury Wells from death and final extinction - it's quite old you know and has survived quite well over the years - without a Tesco. Also if it's "dying on it's feet" - ask why do Tesco desperately want to come here (3 planning applications so far). It wouldn't be in Tesco's interests to build a very expensive store in a "dying town". You need to wake up and get into the real world. Your comments make you sound very foolish and I hope you have no say in any decisions.

@WR15 said...

I'm guessing Tesco want to come here because they know through Clubcard Data that a lot of people in the Tenbury area shop at Tesco in Ludlow.

Tesco, Ludlow is too busy and cannot be enlarged. There is no obvious out of town location that can be used, unless they have fully explored and exhausted in town, brownfield sites first.

The Horticulturalist said...

@WR15

"the plans show the use of vitis coignetiae".

21 August 21:28

Re Hops: The landscaping plans show the actual species to be planted.

Do they?? Give us a clue i am interested.

@WR15 said...

Not sure what clue you want, but all planning documents are on the MHDC website.

The Horticulturist said...

@WR15 - I may have missed it but i cannot see any reference or specific detail in any of the 3 x Landscaping Supporting Statement documents....

are you sure you were not informed of this fact at one of your cosy nights in with Tesco? you little tinker....

@WR15 said...

Try
http://e-access.malvernhills.gov.uk/eaccess/showattachplans.asp?ID=28433
Planting Plan ASP4(about page 4)

The Horticulturist... said...

Crikey...what good eyes you've got!

Mr. Longbeard said...

"...But Tenbury Town Council has instead agreed to hold a survey to gauge traders’ views on the proposed supermarket at the former cattle market site, which Tesco says would create 150 jobs..."

Taken from the shropshire star.

Seriously???
Hi we want your opinion on a shop which may mean you might loose some of your profits, what do you think about it?

For once I'm lost for words at least ones that are punishable!!!

@WR15 said...

I have to say I'm slightly confused why they are bothering. Neither a referendum or a survey will create anything that has an impact on the planning system.

The COT did a survey on the 1st application and it was one vote away from being 50/50.

A Town Councillor who is against the development, said that she had discussed it with a number of shopkeepers and was surprised how keen they were for a Tesco to come.

Anonymous said...

Going back to some earlier posts regarding the lack of car parking in Tenbury.

There is plenty of car parking space not being used in the MHDC pay and display car park, which was virtually empty the other day when I drove through. The reason why is simple as well - the car parking charges.

Scrapping the car parking charges will "free up" quite a few spaces and ease the congestion in Tenbury as cars which currenly drive up and down looking for a space on the side of the road will be able to park easily there.

Anonymous said...

When did you go to this car park anon? 2am sunday morn?

Anonymous said...

Anon 15th September - I'm not going to provide forensic evidence like in another thread... basically because I can't be bothered and it's pretty childish as well. But just take it from me, that it was virtually empty except for a few cars dotted around. I can't remember what day it was now, but it was a weekday, and I have no idea of what time it was either.

Anonymous said...

So basically your lying?

@WR15 said...

Much like the street, there are times when its busy and times when its not. At 4.40 yesterday the pay & display was almost empty whilst Palmers was full.

Anonymous said...

it nice to see anon does not like the true facts when you call @wr15
a liar
THE SUPPORT for Tescos is growing Tenbury Futures are in retreat
accept it Tesco will be good for Tenbury

Not Retreating said...

Anon

Instead of saying the same old cr*p, why don't you tell people why it will 'benefit' Tenbury. Unless you know it won't

Tenbury Futures will NEVER retreat.

Anonymous said...

I never use the "pay and display" and when I drive through it - week after week - to the free car park most of its spaces are empty. It is a very expensive car park. Which idiot set the parking charges in Tenbury? Even in Ludlow I can park for less.

Anonymous said...

So there you go anon who called me a liar.

I've made a post about there being an empty car park, and I've since been backed up by another three posters.

If you want a reason to bring a Tesco here, how about this.

Go to Leominster on any Friday, and walk around to see how many people you will see from Tenbury - They are NOT using the local shops in Tenbury.

Let's bring these people back into Tenbury so that they can use the "in-town" (note: not "out-of-town") supermarket and pop in to the other shops while they are there, no doubt like the shoppers who currently use Bowketts and Spar also do.

Not every shop is in competition with Tesco, so the increased number of shoppers must be good news for the town. (See the letters page in the Advertiser for a shop owner who makes the same point.)

Have you looked at the state of Smithfield House and the auction yard? What good does it currently do for the town? I can't think of a single thing - it's not even a useable car park on most of the area because of the huge potholes.

I also cant think of anyone else who can realistically get the finances together to develop it.

If Tesco's lose interest in this site, Tenbury will be left with this eyesore for years to come (and probably an out-of-town store!)

As for traffic, is that really going to be a problem? I dont think so, it will most probably be cancelled out by a reduction in the number of people who will no longer cross the bridge to leave Tenbury, and by those who currently cross the bridge to drive through town on their way to Leominster. Add to that the widening of the bridge (see blog entry on 4 July) and (so I've heard) the removal of some car parking spaces outside Spar (which I think will remove a bottleneck) which will further improve traffic flow.

The Man With Proof said...

Anon all we know those "three" other people could be you. You got proof that they aren't?

Tesco is in competition with EVERYONE they do.

Food
Drink
Cafe's
Banks
Clothes
Pharmacy
Bakery
Butchers
Insurance

Actually the list goes om do you really want me to list everything?

Size does matter.....apparently said...

I am sure if the proposed store was smaller - a more realistic size for the town, which would lead to more car parking being possible and the retention of the RBB building then there would be far less opposition.....

Anonymous said...

The man with proof - how pathetic do you sound. Are we not adults here? You don't like what I say so instead of posting constructive points you suggest I am posting as someone else?

I don't need to prove myself - you are the one deluding yourself, go and take a look at the car park and see for yourself.

As for my point about all the Tenbury people shopping in Leominster (and other towns) - do you not agree that we need to get them back shopping in Tenbury? or are you happy for them to continue leaving Tenbury every week?

I note your lack of a response to that point? Does that mean you know I am right?

You list the competition :-

>Food - yes obviously

>Drink - Yes again

>Cafe's - didn't Tenbury Futures suggest a riverside cafe on the CM site in direct competition with all the other cafes and restaurants?

>Banks - Isn't there one of our banks closing? Are people likely to swap all their business from Lloyds or Barclays to Tesco? They might if Lloyds closes, but otherwise - I doubt it. Are Lloyds and Barclays not major international companies anyway?

>Clothes - Tell me, where can I buy myself some clothes in Tenbury as a 29 year old male?

>Pharmacy - This could be a positive thing. I went to the doctors and my appointment was behind schedule. I missed the chemist as they closed at 6pm, so had no medication overnight.

>Bakery - OK, but I like the flavoured local breads (particularly the one with peppers in it) from Swifts, so would continue to visit them.

>Butchers - I like bowketts meat, so would still buy from there, in the same way as now. I don't think anyone can touch Bowketts butchers.

>Insurance - yes, and we can already access this online along with a lot of other insurance companies. You can't honestly say people dont shop around online or on the phone before visiting the insurance shop? I do, and found other companies to be cheaper for me than both Tescos and NFS in Tenbury.

What about my other point which also didn't get a response? Who else has the money and inclination to purchase and develop the site?

Where is the clear alternative plan? TF keep putting their ideas out, but it's a new idea every week, is it just a brainstorm of ideas they come up with - none of them have any costing or finances put together against them. Who is going to build TF's ideas? Do they have someone willing to take such a project on? How can that be taken seriously?

As a final point "Man with proof" I dont know where your proof is - your link to the tescopoly page just comes back with "page cannot be displayed"

The Man With Proof said...

>Insurance - yes, and we can already access this online along with a lot of other insurance companies. You can't honestly say people dont shop around online or on the phone before visiting the insurance shop? I do, and found other companies to be cheaper for me than both Tescos and NFS in Tenbury.

You said it yourself. You can get this online.

But you can also shop online at Tesco for Food, Drink , Etc. So why do we need a Tesco in town. WE DON'T

I gather by your response the other 3 people were you as you got very heated.

Anonymous said...

I'm not heated. I'm also not the three other people, but if you want to believe that, then that's entirely up to you. I'm sure WR15 could tell us whether the three posts came from 3 different IP addresses.

Although I'm sure if that was the case, you will say I posted from 3 different computers.

I note you still refuse to give any counter-argument to my points.

My point about the insurance still stands, the fact that you can access any insurance company online, and NFS still survives, proves that just by having a Tesco will not affect them as they are already in competition with them.

Yes, you can shop online for food, but your argument that it means that we dont need a supermarket just doesn't hold any water. Many people travel away from Tenbury to do their shop, by having a major supermarket will bring them back.

It has nothing at all to do with online shopping, that's just another method of doing a shop.

Only a sceptic... said...

Interesting to see that one of the points on the standard "For Tesco" letter is that the site is eco-froendly and will reduce the amount of home delivery vans.....unless of course Tesco plans to run its "Teme valley home delivery service" from Tenbury, allowing them to increase the retail floor space in Ludlow..does anyone know differently???

Anonymous said...

THE NO TO TESCO LETTER IS FULL OF UNTRUE FACTS BUT PURE FICTION
TENBURY FUTURES ARE AS BEENS

The Man With Proof said...

Haha to the Anon who ALWAYS WRITES IN CAPITALS LIKE HE IS SHOUTING!!

Nice to see when someone challenges the for Tesco letter they have facts and you just come back and say the no tesco letter is full of fiction. Ok point out these fictions for us please so they can alter them.

To the man who got heated.

Do you really think your going to park in the Tesco car park if Tesco come and then go town town to buy your meat and bakery items etc. Lets have a little roleplay shall we.

We drive into the Tesco car park to park but are unable to find a space due to the size of car park being too small. We spend lets say 20 minutes find a free space (but as it is being controlled by a ANPR camera meaning it records your time of arrival and exit regardless on how long you drive round looking for a space). Once you found this space after the 20 minute driving round waiting for someone to leave you go into Tesco and spend time looking round the shop what to buy looking at the offers this could take 45 minutes. So far you have spent 65 minutes in the car park and only have 25 minutes left to leave before you get a hefty fine. BUT whilst in Tesco you have bought yoghurts and other chilled stuff, possibly frozen. Are you then going to leave these in your car whilst you walk the half mile or so up to Bowketts and buy your meat you say your still going to use? No of course not because these yoghurts will go off and the frozen items will defrost and go bad in your car especially in the summer we are having at the moment when it gets 25C+. You say by carrying them they won't get as heated in the car but are you really going to carry all these items up the street to Bowketts? No of course not. And lets say you will go up town to buy your meat from Bowketts this will defiantly take longer than the 25 minutes you have left because no doubt (being a small town like Tenbury Wells) you will bump into someone you know and start talking because surely you won't walk past them without saying a word because that would be rude now wouldn't it. So are you going to do this every time and get a hefty fine? no of course not.

Now you say you would go home put your yoghurts in the fridge, oven chips in the freezer and then go back and park in Tesco and go up to Bowketts, oh no wait there is a no return limit of 2 hours and once you re-enter into the Tesco car park inbetween the 2 hours you will once again receive a nice hefty fine thanks to Tesco. Yes Tesco like to fine their customers. You will no doubt say no no no Tesco won't receive any of this money as it will be dealt with by a independent company, now can you honestly say they don't profit? Of course they do they wouldn't use them otherwise.

Yours sincerely
The Man With Proof

Anonymous said...

If the pay and display car park was cheaper people would stay longer but the council doesn't care about that, they just want the money from selling parking tickets.

Car Park Questionnaire said...

Please fill out the Car Park questionnaire on the MHDC website.
(Click the link above)

Anonymous said...

I don't know if Only a sceptic... has facts, I think they are just asking a question aren't they?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but dont the delivery vans come from the Kidderminster store not Ludlow? I know when they've come to us in Burford they have always come from Kidderminster.

As for the post about the car park questionnaire on MHDC's site, I didn't know there was a consultation, but I have just filled it in and sent some comments.

Man with proof, wouldn't you just drive up to Bowketts and use their car park? People drive all the way back from Leominster with frozen stuff, so what's the difference in a few minutes parked up in Bowketts?

Also what evidence do you have that it's going to take 20 minutes to find a car parking space? As the store doesn't exist what are you basing this 20 minutes on? Is it just an exagerated stab in the dark or what?

@WR15 said...

I think some vans come from Ludlow.

I did a little (non-academic)research and it seems that when new stores open there are often queues for the car park, but within weeks this has settled down as the wonderful human race seems to be able to adjust their shopping habits to avoid the peaks.

This doesn't take account of the unexpected like when some of the Scottish stores priced 3 packs of Beer for £8 instead of taking £8 off if you bought three packs and word quickly spread and chaos in their car parks ensued.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the "man with proof". The car-park is well short of spaces ,i think it should have 150+ All the man with proof should do is get to the store first thing in the morning, instead of staying in bed.

Anonymous said...

The man with proof is talking utter nonsense as usual

The Man With Proof said...

The Man With Proof talking utter nonsence as usual

Hmm I think I have only commented at most 4-5 times so anon before making judgments get to know what I have to say.

What I said is true they will all get a hefty fine from Tesco for parking there too long.

@WR15 said...

There is always the option for the Planners to require Tesco to increase the free parking period as a condition of the permission.

The Man With Proof said...

With the parking so short of spaces Tesco won't want to increase the time they would rather you leave and let someone park so they can use their store

@WR15 said...

Provided the plan is passed by the planners they can impose conditions, but if they turn it down and it's passed on appeal, then they can't, and any S106 agreement is also lapsed.

Anonymous said...

The council should forget the S106 money and do whats best for the town and not thinking of getting some money in their back pockets

@WR15 said...

But if their legal council tell them it would be passed on appeal, should they turn it down to keep you happy, or grant it and take the money?

Anonymous said...

They should fight it to the nail and at least then we can see they tried to do the right thing and keep this monster out

@WR15 said...

I can see the Political attraction of doing that, but financially it doesn't make sense.

You may be one of (approx.)66% of objectors that live outside the MHDC area, (sorry Burford that also includes you) so the financial implications will have no effect on you.

Anonymous said...

well said @w15
if u look at the objectors there one from bury st edmonds that is a joke

@WR15 said...

I did wonder if some people are professional Tesco objectors.

Although the pressure groups like to count numbers, planning is about meeting a criteria, not winning a vote.

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